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	Comments on: Even the losers write history sometimes	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.yourish.com/2010/10/11/12362/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.yourish.com/2010/10/11/12362</link>
	<description>Cutting straight to the point</description>
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		<title>
		By: Joel		</title>
		<link>https://www.yourish.com/2010/10/11/12362/comment-page-1#comment-41792</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Oct 2010 14:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/?p=12362#comment-41792</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Moshe Dayan was always an over rated general and a rather unsavory fellow on other things too.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moshe Dayan was always an over rated general and a rather unsavory fellow on other things too.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Alex Bensky		</title>
		<link>https://www.yourish.com/2010/10/11/12362/comment-page-1#comment-41788</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex Bensky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Oct 2010 11:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/?p=12362#comment-41788</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If the academic left knew anything at all about military affairs--and usually its reaction is &quot;ugh, guns, disgusting,&quot; not that this stops them from pontificating about military affairs--it might draw some conclusions about the comparative nature of Arab and Israeli societies. Michael points out one such aspect: In the IDF information tends to flow freely and accurately, officers having no reason to fear for their personal safety if they inform their commanders of the real situations.

Another is that in Israel&#039;s army decision-making is offered to ranks much lower than in Arab armies. Decisions in the Egyptian army often made at the level of colonel may fall to NCO&#039;s in the IDF. It is one of many ways that Israel is shown to be an open society.

Not that this would change any minds in the ivory towers.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the academic left knew anything at all about military affairs&#8211;and usually its reaction is &#8220;ugh, guns, disgusting,&#8221; not that this stops them from pontificating about military affairs&#8211;it might draw some conclusions about the comparative nature of Arab and Israeli societies. Michael points out one such aspect: In the IDF information tends to flow freely and accurately, officers having no reason to fear for their personal safety if they inform their commanders of the real situations.</p>
<p>Another is that in Israel&#8217;s army decision-making is offered to ranks much lower than in Arab armies. Decisions in the Egyptian army often made at the level of colonel may fall to NCO&#8217;s in the IDF. It is one of many ways that Israel is shown to be an open society.</p>
<p>Not that this would change any minds in the ivory towers.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michael Lonie		</title>
		<link>https://www.yourish.com/2010/10/11/12362/comment-page-1#comment-41787</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Lonie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Oct 2010 03:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/?p=12362#comment-41787</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A major reason that the IDF high command thought it could absorb an attack and strike back was the strategic depth the Sinai gave to Israel.  Israel never had strategic depth before.  There was never any room to retreat to if necessary.  Even the Golan gave a little depth to Israel&#039;s defenses.

Kenneth Pollack, in &quot;Arab Armies At War 1948-1991&quot; describes a key action showing how Israel won in 1973.  The Egyptians had set up a radio intercept company of Hebrew speaking intelligence officers.  They monitored the Israel frequencies and listened to what the Israelis were saying to each other, so finding out what the IDF units were doing.  Israelis, at least at that time, were notoriously lax about radio discipline and constantly gave useful information in clear.


But this operation did more than just tell the Egyptian high command what the Israelis were up to.  It also told them what their own units were up to.  It is difficult, sometimes impossible, to get accurate information out of Arab officers about what they are doing.  By listening in on the Israelis the Egyptian staff would find out that the reports they got from the umpteenth division, saying that it was attacking the Israelis and had destroyed 100 tanks in two days, were complete fabrications.  The umpteenth division was sitting in its foxholes and the officers were partying.  So the high command could come down on any Egyptian officers lying to them.  Without it the high command could not even tell if the various formations were where they said they were.  Sometiems they weren&#039;t.

But Israel caught on to this problem, and sent a commando raid that wiped out or captured the entire intercept company.  Then the Egyptian command could not tell what Israel was up to, and worse, could not tell what the Egyptians were up to.  This raid helped greatly in fighting the war.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A major reason that the IDF high command thought it could absorb an attack and strike back was the strategic depth the Sinai gave to Israel.  Israel never had strategic depth before.  There was never any room to retreat to if necessary.  Even the Golan gave a little depth to Israel&#8217;s defenses.</p>
<p>Kenneth Pollack, in &#8220;Arab Armies At War 1948-1991&#8221; describes a key action showing how Israel won in 1973.  The Egyptians had set up a radio intercept company of Hebrew speaking intelligence officers.  They monitored the Israel frequencies and listened to what the Israelis were saying to each other, so finding out what the IDF units were doing.  Israelis, at least at that time, were notoriously lax about radio discipline and constantly gave useful information in clear.</p>
<p>But this operation did more than just tell the Egyptian high command what the Israelis were up to.  It also told them what their own units were up to.  It is difficult, sometimes impossible, to get accurate information out of Arab officers about what they are doing.  By listening in on the Israelis the Egyptian staff would find out that the reports they got from the umpteenth division, saying that it was attacking the Israelis and had destroyed 100 tanks in two days, were complete fabrications.  The umpteenth division was sitting in its foxholes and the officers were partying.  So the high command could come down on any Egyptian officers lying to them.  Without it the high command could not even tell if the various formations were where they said they were.  Sometiems they weren&#8217;t.</p>
<p>But Israel caught on to this problem, and sent a commando raid that wiped out or captured the entire intercept company.  Then the Egyptian command could not tell what Israel was up to, and worse, could not tell what the Egyptians were up to.  This raid helped greatly in fighting the war.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Alex Bensky		</title>
		<link>https://www.yourish.com/2010/10/11/12362/comment-page-1#comment-41786</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex Bensky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Oct 2010 02:47:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/?p=12362#comment-41786</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ah yes, Herschel, I can recall after 9/11 protests that we would be insensitive to the Muslim street if we attacked during Ramadan; apparently it&#039;s OK to attack during Ramadan sometimes.

Inadvertently the attack on Yom Kippur was probably helpful in that the streets were clear and the mobilization did not get caught up in the mess that a regular workday would have caused. Reservists were mostly at home and could muster more quickly than otherwise. On the other hand, I do not recall much outrage among the west about the timing of the attack...then again, a few years before no one bothered to note that the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong attacked during a holiday truce they had agreed to observe.

And while you hear all about the claim (probably true) that the Egyptian objective wasn&#039;t to destroy Israel outright, the Egyptians would hardly have forsaken a chance to do just that if the IDF had been broken in the Sinai. It wasn&#039;t lack of desire but lack of wherewithal. And in any case, it might be noted that Egypt wasn&#039;t the only belligerent; the Syrians clearly set their sights on the Galilee and beyond, not just recovering the Golan. But this recognition would interfere with the narrative that the Arabs started the war for limited political purposes.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah yes, Herschel, I can recall after 9/11 protests that we would be insensitive to the Muslim street if we attacked during Ramadan; apparently it&#8217;s OK to attack during Ramadan sometimes.</p>
<p>Inadvertently the attack on Yom Kippur was probably helpful in that the streets were clear and the mobilization did not get caught up in the mess that a regular workday would have caused. Reservists were mostly at home and could muster more quickly than otherwise. On the other hand, I do not recall much outrage among the west about the timing of the attack&#8230;then again, a few years before no one bothered to note that the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong attacked during a holiday truce they had agreed to observe.</p>
<p>And while you hear all about the claim (probably true) that the Egyptian objective wasn&#8217;t to destroy Israel outright, the Egyptians would hardly have forsaken a chance to do just that if the IDF had been broken in the Sinai. It wasn&#8217;t lack of desire but lack of wherewithal. And in any case, it might be noted that Egypt wasn&#8217;t the only belligerent; the Syrians clearly set their sights on the Galilee and beyond, not just recovering the Golan. But this recognition would interfere with the narrative that the Arabs started the war for limited political purposes.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Herschel		</title>
		<link>https://www.yourish.com/2010/10/11/12362/comment-page-1#comment-41785</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Herschel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Oct 2010 22:06:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/?p=12362#comment-41785</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The reality is that Dayan and his generals believed that they could absorb the first blow without significant casualties and then knock out the Arab attackers via their air force, and mop up with their army. What they had not counted on was the Russian high tech anti-aircraft missiles that were fired at Israeli aircraft by Russian controlled crews that took a heavy toll on the Israeli air force. 
It has always been a damned if you do, and damned if you do not, Israeli scenario in the Middle East. It has been 37 years since the Yom Kippur war, Israel learned a very painful lesson, and will no longer allow themselves to be surprised by anyone!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reality is that Dayan and his generals believed that they could absorb the first blow without significant casualties and then knock out the Arab attackers via their air force, and mop up with their army. What they had not counted on was the Russian high tech anti-aircraft missiles that were fired at Israeli aircraft by Russian controlled crews that took a heavy toll on the Israeli air force.<br />
It has always been a damned if you do, and damned if you do not, Israeli scenario in the Middle East. It has been 37 years since the Yom Kippur war, Israel learned a very painful lesson, and will no longer allow themselves to be surprised by anyone!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rahel		</title>
		<link>https://www.yourish.com/2010/10/11/12362/comment-page-1#comment-41784</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rahel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Oct 2010 20:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/?p=12362#comment-41784</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve noted over the years that Arab writings refer to the Yom Kippur War as the &quot;October War,&quot; glossing over the fact that they specifically chose Yom Kippur for their attack.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve noted over the years that Arab writings refer to the Yom Kippur War as the &#8220;October War,&#8221; glossing over the fact that they specifically chose Yom Kippur for their attack.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Myackie		</title>
		<link>https://www.yourish.com/2010/10/11/12362/comment-page-1#comment-41783</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Myackie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Oct 2010 19:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/?p=12362#comment-41783</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I loathe most MSM...but I do scan the &quot;Letters to the Editor&quot; sections to see if anyone else will point out their errors.

Please, please write a letter to the Times stating what you say here.

Also notable...the Yom Kippur war was during ramadan...hmmmmm...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I loathe most MSM&#8230;but I do scan the &#8220;Letters to the Editor&#8221; sections to see if anyone else will point out their errors.</p>
<p>Please, please write a letter to the Times stating what you say here.</p>
<p>Also notable&#8230;the Yom Kippur war was during ramadan&#8230;hmmmmm&#8230;</p>
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