Comments on: The Conversion Bill and Ridiculous Arguments

By: Rabbi Kaufman

Rabbi Kaufman — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:04:05 +0000

I agree that there will need to be records kept and that those who are Jewish by patrilineal descent will face problems in the future should they decide to marry a Jew from a movement that does not accept it. Additionally, there are problems for grandchildren and later descendants. It is indeed a problem. Accommodation for that problem is the issue. Mikvah and conversion solves the problem if the individual wishes to marry according to the more traditional streams, which for this issue includes Conservative Judaism.

By: sabbahillel

sabbahillel — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 17:00:23 +0000

Having seen your other post that Israeli Reorm does not recognize “patrilineal” descent like the American group. I would say that you have two different religions. Telling American youth who are halachically Jewish that they will not be recognized as “Jewish” as well as telling someone who wants to convert that he does not need to convert halachically is a lie that will lead to tragedy. When Bai Hillel and bais Shammai disagreed on a matter of marriage, they kept careful records and warned each oth so that there would not be a problem later on. Forcing the split will just lead to tragedy in the future.

By: sabbahillel

sabbahillel — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:34:36 +0000

When you acknowledge that “Messianic Judaism” (aka Xianity) is as much “Judaism” as any other human invented “offshoot”, then I will see that you understand what is going on. Reform is to modern Judaism, what the Sadducees were to Judaism in the time of the Maccabees. Just as the Sadducees were invented to allow the Hellenists to become a “religious” stream, so too Reform was invented by the enlightenment to justify there becoming totally “secular”. Conservatism was an attempt to recognize that Reform had gone too far in running away from Judaism without completely doing t’shuvah. However, the way they have developed in the last century shows that neither group understands what Judaism is.

By: Rabbi Kaufman

Rabbi Kaufman — Sat, 24 Jul 2010 04:04:04 +0000

See the comment to the “Why it is important” article above. All of the arguments in the world about whether or not people might choose Reform Judaism are irrelevant because they do not have that choice. You are correct that many will not choose Reform Judaism, but no few who will not choose Orthodoxy, might choose Reform.

Last year, 2,000 people in Israel converted to Judaism. If you were to double that total with a new conversion system, it would not make a dent in the 300,000 total.

If it were the case that Jews could choose what kind of Judaism to practice in Israel and were treated fairly, no matter what movement they were from, and if, under those circumstances, Reform Judaism failed to catch on, I would have no argument. But preventing that possibility and then supposing that it would come to pass, just does not work. While some accuse Reform Judaism of being a path out of Judaism, for hundreds of thousands, it is the sole path to remain IN, and for thousands more, the only path to enter Judaism to begin with.

By: Alexander

Alexander — Sat, 24 Jul 2010 03:11:02 +0000

As a Russoan-Jewish immigrant in Israel, I can tell you that very few of those 300 000 Russian-born non-Jewish immigrants actually wish to convert. They do not feel terribly deprived; they are far too proud of their original identity and culture, and conversion for the sake of convenience is often seen as treasonous to that identity and culture (think of how you would feel about Jews converting to Christianity for money. Crude analogy perhaps, but you see my point, don’t you?). Also, people of Russian extraction- Jews and non-Jews alike- are deeply skeptical of Reform Judaism; they see it as a kind of cop-out- too Christianity-like and not sufficiently “authentically Jewish”. The failure of the Reform Judaism among the Russian immigrants in Israel is mirrorer by its failure in Russia, while Orthodox movements like the CHABAD were far more successful.