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	<title>
	Comments on: This one&#8217;s for the tough guys	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.yourish.com/2007/04/23/3041/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.yourish.com/2007/04/23/3041</link>
	<description>Cutting straight to the point</description>
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		<title>
		By: Jim Treacher		</title>
		<link>https://www.yourish.com/2007/04/23/3041/comment-page-1#comment-25921</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim Treacher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2007 06:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2007/04/24/3041#comment-25921</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;I would like to hear from Yourish, Treacher et al., what should be done.&quot;

What they did do. Stay alive any way they could. The only despicable thing is second-guessing them for it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I would like to hear from Yourish, Treacher et al., what should be done.&#8221;</p>
<p>What they did do. Stay alive any way they could. The only despicable thing is second-guessing them for it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>https://www.yourish.com/2007/04/23/3041/comment-page-1#comment-25900</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2007/04/24/3041#comment-25900</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So, we now know that some think defending by attacking is nuts. OK, maybe that&#039;s so, but I would like to hear from Yourish, Treacher et al., what should be done.

I too suspect the tough talking guys would get all poopy pantied and hide or run, or be uselessly killed. I also think hiding  or running is despicable. 

What to do?

I&#039;d like to think I would do something better than skulking. Is &#039;Death before Dishonor&#039; still around. If we lose the ideal does the reality degenerate?

The tough talkers are right about one thing - a swarm would have taken him down. Machine guns, even bunkered ones, have been successfully assaulted by infantry.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, we now know that some think defending by attacking is nuts. OK, maybe that&#8217;s so, but I would like to hear from Yourish, Treacher et al., what should be done.</p>
<p>I too suspect the tough talking guys would get all poopy pantied and hide or run, or be uselessly killed. I also think hiding  or running is despicable. </p>
<p>What to do?</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to think I would do something better than skulking. Is &#8216;Death before Dishonor&#8217; still around. If we lose the ideal does the reality degenerate?</p>
<p>The tough talkers are right about one thing &#8211; a swarm would have taken him down. Machine guns, even bunkered ones, have been successfully assaulted by infantry.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jim Treacher		</title>
		<link>https://www.yourish.com/2007/04/23/3041/comment-page-1#comment-25892</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim Treacher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2007/04/24/3041#comment-25892</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Apparently, Walter, that goes for your argument as well.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently, Walter, that goes for your argument as well.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Walter E. Wallis		</title>
		<link>https://www.yourish.com/2007/04/23/3041/comment-page-1#comment-25881</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Walter E. Wallis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:02:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2007/04/24/3041#comment-25881</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If you are going to die, die trying, not whimpering.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you are going to die, die trying, not whimpering.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: John Cunningham		</title>
		<link>https://www.yourish.com/2007/04/23/3041/comment-page-1#comment-25875</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Cunningham]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:14:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2007/04/24/3041#comment-25875</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Shoulda&#039;, woulda&#039;, coulda&#039;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shoulda&#8217;, woulda&#8217;, coulda&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Reginleif		</title>
		<link>https://www.yourish.com/2007/04/23/3041/comment-page-1#comment-25874</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reginleif]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2007/04/24/3041#comment-25874</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Fair enough.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Meryl Yourish		</title>
		<link>https://www.yourish.com/2007/04/23/3041/comment-page-1#comment-25873</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Meryl Yourish]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:34:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2007/04/24/3041#comment-25873</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[We can agree to disagree. I have rarely found college students to be particularly adult in their lives and actions, and now more than ever, as I approach my middle years, I find their actions childish and childlike.

I agree that many of our parents are not pushing our children to accept enough responsibility in their lives. The bulk of those parents happen to be in the middle and upper classes.

I&#039;ve never seen a working-class eighteen-year-old that I wouldn&#039;t call a responsible adult. They generally don&#039;t have the luxury of remaining a child through their mid-twenties.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We can agree to disagree. I have rarely found college students to be particularly adult in their lives and actions, and now more than ever, as I approach my middle years, I find their actions childish and childlike.</p>
<p>I agree that many of our parents are not pushing our children to accept enough responsibility in their lives. The bulk of those parents happen to be in the middle and upper classes.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never seen a working-class eighteen-year-old that I wouldn&#8217;t call a responsible adult. They generally don&#8217;t have the luxury of remaining a child through their mid-twenties.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jerry Ritcey		</title>
		<link>https://www.yourish.com/2007/04/23/3041/comment-page-1#comment-25872</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jerry Ritcey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:32:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2007/04/24/3041#comment-25872</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If only we had patrols of Internet tough guys on campuses, they could stop any attack before it started. This might lead to calls for chair and laptop control laws, though. It would be comical, if the lashing out of nitwits like Derbyshire (http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YzllOTU0MDUzY2NhZDE2YmViYmRiNmE5ZjM1OWQxYTU=)
wasn&#039;t so vile in attacking murder victims.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If only we had patrols of Internet tough guys on campuses, they could stop any attack before it started. This might lead to calls for chair and laptop control laws, though. It would be comical, if the lashing out of nitwits like Derbyshire (<a href="http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YzllOTU0MDUzY2NhZDE2YmViYmRiNmE5ZjM1OWQxYTU=" rel="nofollow ugc">http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YzllOTU0MDUzY2NhZDE2YmViYmRiNmE5ZjM1OWQxYTU=</a>)<br />
wasn&#8217;t so vile in attacking murder victims.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Reginleif		</title>
		<link>https://www.yourish.com/2007/04/23/3041/comment-page-1#comment-25871</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reginleif]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:28:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2007/04/24/3041#comment-25871</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Meryl, as much as I appreciate seeing yet another column deriding the &quot;Tough Guys&quot; of the internet for calling the college students &quot;cowards&quot; (I&#039;ve dropped a few friends over this and don&#039;t regret doing so, though it hurts), I disagree with your calling them &quot;children.&quot; They were adults. Old enough to drive, old enough to work for pay, old enough to serve in the military. It&#039;s perfectly possible to stand up for the murdered without contributing to the current disturbing and destructive trend of infantilizing young American adults.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meryl, as much as I appreciate seeing yet another column deriding the &#8220;Tough Guys&#8221; of the internet for calling the college students &#8220;cowards&#8221; (I&#8217;ve dropped a few friends over this and don&#8217;t regret doing so, though it hurts), I disagree with your calling them &#8220;children.&#8221; They were adults. Old enough to drive, old enough to work for pay, old enough to serve in the military. It&#8217;s perfectly possible to stand up for the murdered without contributing to the current disturbing and destructive trend of infantilizing young American adults.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Meryl Yourish		</title>
		<link>https://www.yourish.com/2007/04/23/3041/comment-page-1#comment-25868</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Meryl Yourish]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2007/04/24/3041#comment-25868</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Walter: Some of them &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/18/AR2007041802824_pf.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;did fight back.&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Kevin Granata had heard the commotion in his third-floor office and ran downstairs. He was a military veteran, very protective of his students. He was gunned down trying to confront the shooter.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And died.

Some of them defended themselves and lived.

&lt;blockquote&gt;The small group of 10 in Haiyan Cheng&#039;s computer class heard the loud banging outside. She thought it was construction noise at first, but it distracted her. No, they were pops. Then silence, then more pops. Cheng and a female student went to the door and peered out. They saw a man emerge from a room across the hall. He was holding a gun, but it was pointed down. They quickly shut the door. More popping sounds, getting louder, closer. The class was in a panic. One student, Zach Petkowicz, was near the lectern &quot;cowering behind it,&quot; he would later say, when he realized that the door was vulnerable. There was a heavy rectangular table in the class, and he and two other students pushed it against the door. No sooner had they fixed it in place than someone pushed hard from the outside. It was the gunman. He forced it open about six inches, but no farther. Petkowicz and his classmates pushed back, not letting up. The gunman fired two shots through the door. One hit the lectern and sent wood scraps and metal flying. Neither hit any of the students. They could hear a clip dropping, the distinct, awful sound of reloading. And, again, the gunman moved on.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

They didn&#039;t seem to have any other options.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Walter: Some of them <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/18/AR2007041802824_pf.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">did fight back.</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Kevin Granata had heard the commotion in his third-floor office and ran downstairs. He was a military veteran, very protective of his students. He was gunned down trying to confront the shooter.</p></blockquote>
<p>And died.</p>
<p>Some of them defended themselves and lived.</p>
<blockquote><p>The small group of 10 in Haiyan Cheng&#8217;s computer class heard the loud banging outside. She thought it was construction noise at first, but it distracted her. No, they were pops. Then silence, then more pops. Cheng and a female student went to the door and peered out. They saw a man emerge from a room across the hall. He was holding a gun, but it was pointed down. They quickly shut the door. More popping sounds, getting louder, closer. The class was in a panic. One student, Zach Petkowicz, was near the lectern &#8220;cowering behind it,&#8221; he would later say, when he realized that the door was vulnerable. There was a heavy rectangular table in the class, and he and two other students pushed it against the door. No sooner had they fixed it in place than someone pushed hard from the outside. It was the gunman. He forced it open about six inches, but no farther. Petkowicz and his classmates pushed back, not letting up. The gunman fired two shots through the door. One hit the lectern and sent wood scraps and metal flying. Neither hit any of the students. They could hear a clip dropping, the distinct, awful sound of reloading. And, again, the gunman moved on.</p></blockquote>
<p>They didn&#8217;t seem to have any other options.</p>
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