To all my atheist readers

6 Responses to To all my atheist readers

1. Jay Tea says:

   12/25/2008 at 2:09 am

   As an agnostic, I’ll have to think about commenting very carefully.

   J.
2. Meryl Yourish says:

   12/25/2008 at 9:16 am

   Ah. Took me a while to get it. But no, agnostics have no excuse. It’s not your holiday, either, since you’re too, ah, whatever, to pick a side.
3. John M. says:

   12/25/2008 at 10:49 am

   I’ll break silence for this one. What the heck do atheists say to their kids at Christmas? With all the decorations in the stores and homes and all the stuff on TV and the radio? “Son, all these people are just evil deluded wackos and this celebration is just mass hysteria and no you can’t have any presents”? Since they can’t send them to school, what do they do all day on Christmas? Read Nietzsche?
4. Ben F says:

   12/25/2008 at 12:31 pm

   Umm, what to say here?

   The only time that Jews arguably shouldn’t be posting here this week is on Shabbat. Speaking of which, I am informed by a source I deem to be reliable that this Saturday’s service will be very, very long because it hits the trifecta (Shabbat, Chanukah, and Rosh Chodesh).

   Second, to John. How are atheists in any different than Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, etc.?

   They can tell their kids that the Christians are celebrating their faith. I don’t teach my kids that folks of other faiths are, ipso facto, evil deluded wackos. To be sure, there are plenty of “faith-based” evil deluded wackos, but none (including “faith based” evil deluded Christian wackos) that I would associate with Christmas celebrations. And yes, there were indeed times and places where Christmas was “celebrated” with pogroms against Jews, but not in these times and certainly not in America.

   Time in the USA moves to a Christian beat. The week is 7 days, Christmas (on the Catholic/Protestant calendar) is a federal holiday, “blue laws,” to the extent that they still exist at all, “protect” Sunday mornings, college football games are played on the Jewish Sabbath, etc. You can like it or not, but it’s a fact. When kids are old enough this topic is worthy of a “consciousness-raising” discussion, particularly if one wants one’s children to retain a non-Christian identity. Ideally parents would not portray this state of affairs as oppressive, but or course the line between church and state is often blurry and occasionally a source of tension.

   Finally, if you want to give gifts, give gifts. If you want to do it near Christmas but not on Christmas, then pick some other occasion like the solstice (too pagan for some) or New Years Day (a fine choice if you’re partial to post-Xmas sales and to bargain-priced chocolate in red and green wrappers).

   Many American Jews who reject Christmas celebrations on religious or cultural grounds graft gift-giving onto Chanukah, a practice with little if any religious basis that’s motivated largely by the proximity of the two holidays.
5. John M. says:

   12/25/2008 at 12:54 pm

   Ben F,

   Yeah, I guess I did neglect there that atheists aren’t the only ones who don’t celebrate Christmas. Sorry about that.

   But at least Jews understand the worldview that it comes from (religion, a God, etc). It’s just a different faith rather than no faith at all. Jews understand why Christians make a big deal out of it.

   But atheists just have to tell their kids that a larger percentage of the population is essentially crazy for having a worldview based in fantasy and error. It seems they’re being hypocritical if they do otherwise.
6. Ben F says:

   12/25/2008 at 10:35 pm

   John M. –

   Atheism is no less a faith than other faiths, and atheists can raise their children as atheists who respect followers of other faiths. Atheists need not teach their children that others are crazy, any more than parents of any other faith need do so.

   I can believe that my faith has a monopoly on truth, and that followers of other faiths are in error, but that is a matter of faith, not something provable, and it does not demand that I look down upon or think any less of others whose faiths differ from mine. This is NOT the same thing as agnosticism; it is simply a recognition that no faith can prove its own truth (that is what makes it a faith).

   Freedom of conscience is a fundamental liberty in American thought and well as in the UN’s over-optimistically named Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

   There are some faiths that teach that some other faiths–or all other faiths–are deluded and perhaps evil, but even that need not preclude tolerance of or, indeed, respect for, followers of other faiths.

   Consider Joe Biden’s views on abortion. As a matter of faith, he views it as immoral, but he does not feel called upon to impose that faith-based value on other citizens by force of law. Some would question Biden’s reasoning, but it strikes me as very American. That form of reason can be taken too far, to be sure, but the outer limits are not easily defined.