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	<title>Comments on: The damned lies of J-Street</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/16/4686/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/16/4686</link>
	<description>Cutting straight to the point</description>
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		<title>By: Michael Lonie</title>
		<link>http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/16/4686/comment-page-1#comment-31637</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Lonie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 03:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/16/4686#comment-31637</guid>
		<description>You know Reaper, Israel offerred to give back all the land captured n the Six Day War in August 1967, except for East Jerusalem.  I think it is reasonable that the Jews have control over their most sacred site, just as it is reasonable that Muslims have control over Mecca and Medina.  When Jordan ruled Jerusalem Jews were not allowed to enter the city, let alone live there.  In exchange Israel wanted peace with internationally recognized borders, for Israel&#039;s 1967 &quot;borders&quot; were not borders, they were simply armistice lines.  I think that is pretty reasonable.

What was the Arab reaction?  It was The Three No&#039;s of Khartoum issued in September 1967: no negotiations, no recognition, no peace.  And they all kept that up until Sadat made peace and got back every rood of land he wanted, whereupon the other Arabs assassinated him (done by a group associated, like Hamas, with the Muslim Brotherhood).

Now, forty-one years later, continual and relentless Arab hostility, terrorism, and wars have been the norm.  What do you want to give them to reward the Muslims for that record, and will it bring peace?  No, it will not.  The Muslims will pocket any and all Israel concessions and push for further war, as they have done constantly. The PLO never lived up to its agreements at Oslo, remember.  It is the Muslims who drive this war, not Israel.  There is nothing Israel can do or give them that will bring about peace or even a cessation of violence.  The last 15 years should have proven that over and over.

Remember this, and you will understand the Muslim-Israel conflict.  When the Muslims say &quot;Peace in the Middle East&quot; they mean the destruction of Israel and the genocide of its Jewish inhabitants.  When they whine for &quot;American evenhandedness&quot; what they mean is that we should help them do this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know Reaper, Israel offerred to give back all the land captured n the Six Day War in August 1967, except for East Jerusalem.  I think it is reasonable that the Jews have control over their most sacred site, just as it is reasonable that Muslims have control over Mecca and Medina.  When Jordan ruled Jerusalem Jews were not allowed to enter the city, let alone live there.  In exchange Israel wanted peace with internationally recognized borders, for Israel&#8217;s 1967 &#8220;borders&#8221; were not borders, they were simply armistice lines.  I think that is pretty reasonable.</p>
<p>What was the Arab reaction?  It was The Three No&#8217;s of Khartoum issued in September 1967: no negotiations, no recognition, no peace.  And they all kept that up until Sadat made peace and got back every rood of land he wanted, whereupon the other Arabs assassinated him (done by a group associated, like Hamas, with the Muslim Brotherhood).</p>
<p>Now, forty-one years later, continual and relentless Arab hostility, terrorism, and wars have been the norm.  What do you want to give them to reward the Muslims for that record, and will it bring peace?  No, it will not.  The Muslims will pocket any and all Israel concessions and push for further war, as they have done constantly. The PLO never lived up to its agreements at Oslo, remember.  It is the Muslims who drive this war, not Israel.  There is nothing Israel can do or give them that will bring about peace or even a cessation of violence.  The last 15 years should have proven that over and over.</p>
<p>Remember this, and you will understand the Muslim-Israel conflict.  When the Muslims say &#8220;Peace in the Middle East&#8221; they mean the destruction of Israel and the genocide of its Jewish inhabitants.  When they whine for &#8220;American evenhandedness&#8221; what they mean is that we should help them do this.</p>
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		<title>By: Soccerdad</title>
		<link>http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/16/4686/comment-page-1#comment-31629</link>
		<dc:creator>Soccerdad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/16/4686#comment-31629</guid>
		<description>What concession are reasonable on the part of the Israelis? Surely you jest.

What the Israeli government has done over the past 15 years would have been considered fringe-left 20 years ago. Israel has changed a lot. (I don&#039;t think that&#039;s a good thing, but that&#039;s what&#039;s been the case.)

And yet despite the movement of the Israeli government towards acceptance of a two state solution, there has been no reciprocal effort on the part of the Palestinians who are motivated not by a sense of nationalism but by a sense of grievance. And that grievance, above all else, must be maintained.

Even with Abbas withdrawing his nominations of terrorists for the highest honor his government can confer he - as well as Fayyad - denies the rights of a Jewish state.

It is not Israel that lacks a commitment to a two state solution. For better or worse, that&#039;s where the state of Israel is. What&#039;s lacking is the commitment on the part of the Palestinians to accept the same.

What J-Street and its allies advocate is continuing to pressure Israel to concessions in the face of an implacable foe. That&#039;s a moral disaster and will continue breeding enemies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What concession are reasonable on the part of the Israelis? Surely you jest.</p>
<p>What the Israeli government has done over the past 15 years would have been considered fringe-left 20 years ago. Israel has changed a lot. (I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a good thing, but that&#8217;s what&#8217;s been the case.)</p>
<p>And yet despite the movement of the Israeli government towards acceptance of a two state solution, there has been no reciprocal effort on the part of the Palestinians who are motivated not by a sense of nationalism but by a sense of grievance. And that grievance, above all else, must be maintained.</p>
<p>Even with Abbas withdrawing his nominations of terrorists for the highest honor his government can confer he &#8211; as well as Fayyad &#8211; denies the rights of a Jewish state.</p>
<p>It is not Israel that lacks a commitment to a two state solution. For better or worse, that&#8217;s where the state of Israel is. What&#8217;s lacking is the commitment on the part of the Palestinians to accept the same.</p>
<p>What J-Street and its allies advocate is continuing to pressure Israel to concessions in the face of an implacable foe. That&#8217;s a moral disaster and will continue breeding enemies.</p>
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		<title>By: Reaper0Bot0</title>
		<link>http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/16/4686/comment-page-1#comment-31627</link>
		<dc:creator>Reaper0Bot0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 06:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/16/4686#comment-31627</guid>
		<description>What concessions do you think are reasonable on the part of the Israelis.  If you consider anything less than a two state solution reasonable, then your position precludes the possibility of peace.

This occupation is a moral disaster, and breeds far more enemies than can ever be killed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What concessions do you think are reasonable on the part of the Israelis.  If you consider anything less than a two state solution reasonable, then your position precludes the possibility of peace.</p>
<p>This occupation is a moral disaster, and breeds far more enemies than can ever be killed.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Lonie</title>
		<link>http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/16/4686/comment-page-1#comment-31625</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Lonie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 05:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/16/4686#comment-31625</guid>
		<description>It appears that many leftists would rather see Israel destroyed than admit that Peace Now was the dumbest idea since the Revolts against Rome.  Most of the former Peacers have learned what a dumb idea it was, from viewing the disasterous consequences of the recommended policies (Tom Paine is one example), but some will never learn.

The Muslims are at war with Israel to destroy the country and murder the Jews, Reaper.  And they are convinced that they can grind down the Israelis until they surrender in exhausted desperation.  People like J Street are helping to give them this confidence.  Just what will you offer the Muslims that they will prefer to getting the whole falalfel, country, genocide and all?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It appears that many leftists would rather see Israel destroyed than admit that Peace Now was the dumbest idea since the Revolts against Rome.  Most of the former Peacers have learned what a dumb idea it was, from viewing the disasterous consequences of the recommended policies (Tom Paine is one example), but some will never learn.</p>
<p>The Muslims are at war with Israel to destroy the country and murder the Jews, Reaper.  And they are convinced that they can grind down the Israelis until they surrender in exhausted desperation.  People like J Street are helping to give them this confidence.  Just what will you offer the Muslims that they will prefer to getting the whole falalfel, country, genocide and all?</p>
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		<title>By: Reaper0Bot0</title>
		<link>http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/16/4686/comment-page-1#comment-31621</link>
		<dc:creator>Reaper0Bot0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/16/4686#comment-31621</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t claim to be oppressed, so please don&#039;t project what you think I&#039;m thinking onto me.

I just think the solution to speech with which you disagree is better speech.  I don&#039;t hate AIPAC and nobody&#039;s trying to muzzle me.  But maybe J Street will turn into something I can support.  AIPAC certainly isn&#039;t.

Good day to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t claim to be oppressed, so please don&#8217;t project what you think I&#8217;m thinking onto me.</p>
<p>I just think the solution to speech with which you disagree is better speech.  I don&#8217;t hate AIPAC and nobody&#8217;s trying to muzzle me.  But maybe J Street will turn into something I can support.  AIPAC certainly isn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Good day to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Meryl Yourish</title>
		<link>http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/16/4686/comment-page-1#comment-31620</link>
		<dc:creator>Meryl Yourish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/16/4686#comment-31620</guid>
		<description>You know what amazes me? The constant drumbeat of people who disagree with AIPAC and &quot;neocons&quot; on Israel that insist that nobody is allowing them to speak up about it.

Please. I&#039;m so tired of the Walt-Mearsheimer crowd pretending that they&#039;ve been suppressed when they&#039;re in every major news outlet, pretty much anytime.

On my comments thread, not so much. But the First Amendment doesn&#039;t apply here. My blog, my dime, my rules.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know what amazes me? The constant drumbeat of people who disagree with AIPAC and &#8220;neocons&#8221; on Israel that insist that nobody is allowing them to speak up about it.</p>
<p>Please. I&#8217;m so tired of the Walt-Mearsheimer crowd pretending that they&#8217;ve been suppressed when they&#8217;re in every major news outlet, pretty much anytime.</p>
<p>On my comments thread, not so much. But the First Amendment doesn&#8217;t apply here. My blog, my dime, my rules.</p>
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		<title>By: Reaper0Bot0</title>
		<link>http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/16/4686/comment-page-1#comment-31618</link>
		<dc:creator>Reaper0Bot0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:50:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/16/4686#comment-31618</guid>
		<description>I am not the only American Jew who believes that AIPAC&#039;s influence faces no significant countervailing force and probably should.  If I don&#039;t agree with how Israel is handling the problem, and moreoever I, as a taxpayer, and partly paying for it, then I get to speak up.

We are not monolithic, nor should we be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not the only American Jew who believes that AIPAC&#8217;s influence faces no significant countervailing force and probably should.  If I don&#8217;t agree with how Israel is handling the problem, and moreoever I, as a taxpayer, and partly paying for it, then I get to speak up.</p>
<p>We are not monolithic, nor should we be.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Bensky</title>
		<link>http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/16/4686/comment-page-1#comment-31606</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Bensky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:21:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/16/4686#comment-31606</guid>
		<description>Soccerdad,you don&#039;t understand. Confidence building concessions are what Israel is supposed to do. It&#039;s destructive of the road map to peace when it doesn&#039;t make them. The Palestinians are supposed to...well, something.

You&#039;d think that leaving Gaza would be considered a pretty substantial gesture, and the Palestinian response to be pretty significant, but apparently not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Soccerdad,you don&#8217;t understand. Confidence building concessions are what Israel is supposed to do. It&#8217;s destructive of the road map to peace when it doesn&#8217;t make them. The Palestinians are supposed to&#8230;well, something.</p>
<p>You&#8217;d think that leaving Gaza would be considered a pretty substantial gesture, and the Palestinian response to be pretty significant, but apparently not.</p>
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