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	<title>Comments on: Religious Jews: Giving ammunition to the enemy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/04/4642/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/04/4642</link>
	<description>Cutting straight to the point</description>
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		<title>By: chsw</title>
		<link>http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/04/4642/comment-page-1#comment-31494</link>
		<dc:creator>chsw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 20:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/04/4642#comment-31494</guid>
		<description>&quot;A Jew is a Jew is a Jew. The Ethiopians are black-skinned? That wonâ€™t stop Hamas and Hezbullah from murdering them because theyâ€™re Jewish.&quot;
I often ask various protest vermin I encounter whether the Israelis or the Palestinians have killed more &quot;people of color.&quot;  Usually, the answers reveal the antisemitic bigotry of the protest vermin. This being said, the fact that racial bigotry among a segment of Israeli Jews is acknowledged and discussed openly is a big step on the way to addressing the problem.  The bigots do not have a halachic leg to stand on once they acknowledge that the Ethiopians are Jews Two examples of &quot;Cushites&quot; in Tanach stand out.  One was one of Moshe Rabbenu&#039;s wives.  Another was a convert who got into a fight with a man who was born a Jew.  The upshot of the examples is that the laws apply equally to all, and there should be no discrimination among Jews against other Jews.
chsw</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A Jew is a Jew is a Jew. The Ethiopians are black-skinned? That wonâ€™t stop Hamas and Hezbullah from murdering them because theyâ€™re Jewish.&#8221;</p>
<p>I often ask various protest vermin I encounter whether the Israelis or the Palestinians have killed more &#8220;people of color.&#8221;  Usually, the answers reveal the antisemitic bigotry of the protest vermin. This being said, the fact that racial bigotry among a segment of Israeli Jews is acknowledged and discussed openly is a big step on the way to addressing the problem.  The bigots do not have a halachic leg to stand on once they acknowledge that the Ethiopians are Jews Two examples of &#8220;Cushites&#8221; in Tanach stand out.  One was one of Moshe Rabbenu&#8217;s wives.  Another was a convert who got into a fight with a man who was born a Jew.  The upshot of the examples is that the laws apply equally to all, and there should be no discrimination among Jews against other Jews. </p>
<p>chsw</p>
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		<title>By: Ben-David</title>
		<link>http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/04/4642/comment-page-1#comment-31492</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben-David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/04/4642#comment-31492</guid>
		<description>A few clarifications:
1) EVERY school in Israel - including schools that are ostensibly &quot;private&quot; - receives government funding.
2) As the Religious Zionist movement has become more stringent in observance, many have left the &quot;Religous Public School&quot; system and started &quot;private&quot; schools. Typically, a core group of parents and educators sets up a private/charitable association, solicits donations, and rents out space. Over time they petition municipalities for lots on which to build a building.
The government partially funds these schools on a per-student basis - in addition to out-of-pocket tuition and other mandatory fees - and pays for things like transportation and food programs.
These are the schools under discussion. They were specifically founded by parents who wanted higher standards - both religious and academic - than the &quot;religious public school system&quot; (AKA &quot;Mamlachti Dati&quot;) was providing.
The PROTESTS are being conducted by parents of the &quot;Relgious Public School System&quot; - which is basically a government-sponsored public school system as Americans understand it, with Jewish enrichment. These schools cannot turn away children in their neighborhoods, as per their public nature.
These parents feel that the private schools are not pulling their weight.
Yet it is not at all clear that the private schools are in any way obligated to accept any quota of Ethiopian kids - any more than they could/should be forced to accept kids who don&#039;t meet their academic/religious profile.
This is part of a larger story in which the &quot;Traditional but not Orthodox&quot; parents who send their kids to the &quot;Mamlachti Dati&quot; schools feel that the religious are abandoning/dissing them.
3) It is a major stretch to think that Ethiopian kids - many of them first-generation immigrants themselves, from 3rd world rural background - are ready for such a highly competitive academic environment.
In addition, there is a significant number of Ethiopian immigrants whose Jewish status is in doubt.
4) The overall record of Religious Zionist educational institutions is overwhelmingly positive with regard to the absorption of Ethiopians.
The religious Zionists schools - both elemetary-level high schools and a network of professional schools and yeshiva high-schoools - were founded and funded through protracted battles with the secular elite, and were beacons of quality education in the depressed, neglected communities of North African immigrants during the 50s, 60s, and 70s.
Many of these institutions are doing for the Ethiopians what they did for the North Africans: providing support for both continued religious observance and academic/professional training - neither of which was/is provided by the secular elite.
IN SUMMARY:
What we have here is a longstanding grudge by those who have remained in the Public Religious School system - gleefully exploited by those on the left who want to denigrate the Religious Zionist movement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few clarifications:</p>
<p>1) EVERY school in Israel &#8211; including schools that are ostensibly &#8220;private&#8221; &#8211; receives government funding.</p>
<p>2) As the Religious Zionist movement has become more stringent in observance, many have left the &#8220;Religous Public School&#8221; system and started &#8220;private&#8221; schools. Typically, a core group of parents and educators sets up a private/charitable association, solicits donations, and rents out space. Over time they petition municipalities for lots on which to build a building. </p>
<p>The government partially funds these schools on a per-student basis &#8211; in addition to out-of-pocket tuition and other mandatory fees &#8211; and pays for things like transportation and food programs.</p>
<p>These are the schools under discussion. They were specifically founded by parents who wanted higher standards &#8211; both religious and academic &#8211; than the &#8220;religious public school system&#8221; (AKA &#8220;Mamlachti Dati&#8221;) was providing.</p>
<p>The PROTESTS are being conducted by parents of the &#8220;Relgious Public School System&#8221; &#8211; which is basically a government-sponsored public school system as Americans understand it, with Jewish enrichment. These schools cannot turn away children in their neighborhoods, as per their public nature.</p>
<p>These parents feel that the private schools are not pulling their weight.</p>
<p>Yet it is not at all clear that the private schools are in any way obligated to accept any quota of Ethiopian kids &#8211; any more than they could/should be forced to accept kids who don&#8217;t meet their academic/religious profile.</p>
<p>This is part of a larger story in which the &#8220;Traditional but not Orthodox&#8221; parents who send their kids to the &#8220;Mamlachti Dati&#8221; schools feel that the religious are abandoning/dissing them.</p>
<p>3) It is a major stretch to think that Ethiopian kids &#8211; many of them first-generation immigrants themselves, from 3rd world rural background &#8211; are ready for such a highly competitive academic environment.</p>
<p>In addition, there is a significant number of Ethiopian immigrants whose Jewish status is in doubt.</p>
<p>4) The overall record of Religious Zionist educational institutions is overwhelmingly positive with regard to the absorption of Ethiopians.</p>
<p>The religious Zionists schools &#8211; both elemetary-level high schools and a network of professional schools and yeshiva high-schoools &#8211; were founded and funded through protracted battles with the secular elite, and were beacons of quality education in the depressed, neglected communities of North African immigrants during the 50s, 60s, and 70s. </p>
<p>Many of these institutions are doing for the Ethiopians what they did for the North Africans: providing support for both continued religious observance and academic/professional training &#8211; neither of which was/is provided by the secular elite.</p>
<p>IN SUMMARY:<br />
What we have here is a longstanding grudge by those who have remained in the Public Religious School system &#8211; gleefully exploited by those on the left who want to denigrate the Religious Zionist movement.</p>
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		<title>By: Russ</title>
		<link>http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/04/4642/comment-page-1#comment-31488</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/04/4642#comment-31488</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;My problem with that &#039;elitist&#039; excuse is that one of the caveats listed was refusing to allow students who have internet access at home.
Say what? Tell me where in the 613 mitzvot it says that having the internet is forbidden.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
That is actually not all that uncommon among right-wing &lt;i&gt;haredi&lt;/i&gt; groups in the US (and presumably Israel as well).  Their thinking is that the internet, like television (which they also shun) allows too many outside influences into the family&#039;s and especially their children&#039;s lives. It&#039;s one of the major dividers between the &lt;i&gt;haredi&lt;/i&gt; and the modern orthodox.
&lt;blockquote&gt;And lastlyâ€“these are the schools that are getting more money from the government that are refusing to have Ethiopians in their schools. While Iâ€™m utterly confused than private schools receive more funding that public schools, something smells funny about this story.&lt;/blockquote&gt;That does sound strange. But then, Israel&#039;s political system is a joke, and governments have been known to pay off small parties with favors like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>My problem with that &#8216;elitist&#8217; excuse is that one of the caveats listed was refusing to allow students who have internet access at home.</p>
<p>Say what? Tell me where in the 613 mitzvot it says that having the internet is forbidden.</p></blockquote>
<p>That is actually not all that uncommon among right-wing <i>haredi</i> groups in the US (and presumably Israel as well).  Their thinking is that the internet, like television (which they also shun) allows too many outside influences into the family&#8217;s and especially their children&#8217;s lives. It&#8217;s one of the major dividers between the <i>haredi</i> and the modern orthodox.</p>
<blockquote><p>And lastlyâ€“these are the schools that are getting more money from the government that are refusing to have Ethiopians in their schools. While Iâ€™m utterly confused than private schools receive more funding that public schools, something smells funny about this story.</p></blockquote>
<p>That does sound strange. But then, Israel&#8217;s political system is a joke, and governments have been known to pay off small parties with favors like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Meryl Yourish</title>
		<link>http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/04/4642/comment-page-1#comment-31487</link>
		<dc:creator>Meryl Yourish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/04/4642#comment-31487</guid>
		<description>My problem with that &quot;elitist&quot; excuse is that one of the caveats listed was refusing to allow students who have internet access at home.
Say what? Tell me where in the 613 mitzvot it says that having the internet is forbidden.
Also, read the quotes from the people making excuses for what happened.
And lastly--these are the schools that are getting more money from the government that are refusing to have Ethiopians in their schools. While I&#039;m utterly confused than private schools receive more funding that public schools, something smells funny about this story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My problem with that &#8220;elitist&#8221; excuse is that one of the caveats listed was refusing to allow students who have internet access at home.</p>
<p>Say what? Tell me where in the 613 mitzvot it says that having the internet is forbidden.</p>
<p>Also, read the quotes from the people making excuses for what happened.</p>
<p>And lastly&#8211;these are the schools that are getting more money from the government that are refusing to have Ethiopians in their schools. While I&#8217;m utterly confused than private schools receive more funding that public schools, something smells funny about this story.</p>
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		<title>By: Russ</title>
		<link>http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/04/4642/comment-page-1#comment-31485</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/04/4642#comment-31485</guid>
		<description>On the other hand...  There is apparently &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3437713,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;evidence of actual racial discrimination&lt;/a&gt; in some cases:&lt;blockquote&gt;Less than three weeks before the school year begins, 80 children of Ethiopian descent residing in Petah Tikvah find themselves with no place to carry out their first year of elementary school. An inquiry revealed that at least eight of the children were refused admission due to racist reasons.
The families of eight of the children said they discovered a few days ago that their children were not assigned to the first grade of &lt;i&gt;their neighborhood school&lt;/i&gt; because parents of other children objected to having Ethiopian students study there.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the other hand&#8230;  There is apparently <a href="http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3437713,00.html" rel="nofollow">evidence of actual racial discrimination</a> in some cases:<br />
<blockquote>Less than three weeks before the school year begins, 80 children of Ethiopian descent residing in Petah Tikvah find themselves with no place to carry out their first year of elementary school. An inquiry revealed that at least eight of the children were refused admission due to racist reasons.</p>
<p>The families of eight of the children said they discovered a few days ago that their children were not assigned to the first grade of <i>their neighborhood school</i> because parents of other children objected to having Ethiopian students study there.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Russ</title>
		<link>http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/04/4642/comment-page-1#comment-31484</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/04/4642#comment-31484</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;dan l&#039;chaf z&#039;chus&lt;/i&gt; (judge favorably)
There are some indications of what is going on in the second article you listed.
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Ostensiblyâ€”as noted by municipality officialsâ€”this was because the girl were not observant enough, and did not belong to the Religious Zionist Movement as do all of the students at the school.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
[snip]
&lt;blockquote&gt;Schools officials did not make formal comment, but noted that the school is elitist both in terms of academics and religious observance, and, for religious purposes, reserves the right not to admit students who have a television or internet access in their home.
Furthermore, as a religious institution, the school had full right to refuse admission to the aforementioned students, because they could not live up to its academic standards.
School officials also note that due the school only agreed to admit these Ethiopian students at the municipalityâ€™s insistence, and therefore was forced to relegate them to special classrooms where they could catch up academically. Furthermore, the students in question also attended many lessons in regular classrooms along with their peers.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
So, is all of this true? I don&#039;t know; do you? But even if you take this as discrimination, there is no evidence that it is &lt;i&gt;racial&lt;/i&gt; discrimination.  I think there may be something else going on here. There is a wide range of observance among communities and schools, and at least in the US, most religious Jews try to send their children to a school which is compatible with their own practices.  Is that not happening here? Is the government of Israel (GOI) just presuming that all religious Jews are alike and therefore they can send them to any schools? Why is the GOI deciding where these students should attend school in the first place?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>dan l&#8217;chaf z&#8217;chus</i> (judge favorably)</p>
<p>There are some indications of what is going on in the second article you listed.</p>
<blockquote><p>
Ostensiblyâ€”as noted by municipality officialsâ€”this was because the girl were not observant enough, and did not belong to the Religious Zionist Movement as do all of the students at the school.</p></blockquote>
<p>[snip]</p>
<blockquote><p>Schools officials did not make formal comment, but noted that the school is elitist both in terms of academics and religious observance, and, for religious purposes, reserves the right not to admit students who have a television or internet access in their home.</p>
<p>Furthermore, as a religious institution, the school had full right to refuse admission to the aforementioned students, because they could not live up to its academic standards.</p>
<p>School officials also note that due the school only agreed to admit these Ethiopian students at the municipalityâ€™s insistence, and therefore was forced to relegate them to special classrooms where they could catch up academically. Furthermore, the students in question also attended many lessons in regular classrooms along with their peers.</p></blockquote>
<p>So, is all of this true? I don&#8217;t know; do you? But even if you take this as discrimination, there is no evidence that it is <i>racial</i> discrimination.  I think there may be something else going on here. There is a wide range of observance among communities and schools, and at least in the US, most religious Jews try to send their children to a school which is compatible with their own practices.  Is that not happening here? Is the government of Israel (GOI) just presuming that all religious Jews are alike and therefore they can send them to any schools? Why is the GOI deciding where these students should attend school in the first place?</p>
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		<title>By: Soccerdad</title>
		<link>http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/04/4642/comment-page-1#comment-31483</link>
		<dc:creator>Soccerdad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/04/4642#comment-31483</guid>
		<description>There is a lack of integration. From my limited observations, the Ethiopians who live near my brother seemingly keep to themselves.
On the other hand my nephew, whose Bar Mitzvah I attended last year, had a couple of Ethiopian friends. One of them came in second place in the Tanach test one of my other nephews put together.
I suspect the place where Ethiopians and Bnai Menashe are most welcome is Chevron (where the anti-Arab &quot;racists&quot; live.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a lack of integration. From my limited observations, the Ethiopians who live near my brother seemingly keep to themselves. </p>
<p>On the other hand my nephew, whose Bar Mitzvah I attended last year, had a couple of Ethiopian friends. One of them came in second place in the Tanach test one of my other nephews put together.</p>
<p>I suspect the place where Ethiopians and Bnai Menashe are most welcome is Chevron (where the anti-Arab &#8220;racists&#8221; live.)</p>
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		<title>By: Rahel</title>
		<link>http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/04/4642/comment-page-1#comment-31482</link>
		<dc:creator>Rahel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:20:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourish.com/2008/04/04/4642#comment-31482</guid>
		<description>Right on target, Meryl. There have been all too many incidents like this (though even one would be too many). I&#039;m glad that the subject is being brought out into the open. Maybe that will help stop this discrimination, which is both a violation of Jewish law and a &lt;em&gt;hillul ha-Shem&lt;/em&gt; (desecration of the Divine Name).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right on target, Meryl. There have been all too many incidents like this (though even one would be too many). I&#8217;m glad that the subject is being brought out into the open. Maybe that will help stop this discrimination, which is both a violation of Jewish law and a <em>hillul ha-Shem</em> (desecration of the Divine Name).</p>
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