Comments on: Christian missionaries arrested in Jordan http://www.yourish.com/2008/02/20/4410 Cutting straight to the point Sun, 12 Feb 2012 21:56:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.1 By: David Charlap http://www.yourish.com/2008/02/20/4410/comment-page-1#comment-30990 David Charlap Fri, 22 Feb 2008 19:57:46 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2008/02/20/4410#comment-30990 Meryl, - you are responding to a point I didn't make. I didn't say a state religion must prohibit the practice of all other religions (although that is also common.) I said it is reasonable to prohibit foreign missionaries from entering the country for the purpose of converting people away from the state's religion. A proper analog (using your example of England and Judaism) would be England prohibiting foreigners from entering the country if they are trying to convert the Anglican population to Judaism. Not only do I think that would be their right, I wouldn't even oppose the law. I consider all missionary activity to be organized harassment. It's illegal in most places (including the US) to badger them into buying products, so why should badgering them into changing religions be any different? Religious freedom is, by definition, incompatible with the concept of a state religion. If you support one, then you have to oppose the other. If you want to grant missionaries the right to preach anywhere and everywhere, then you must also forbid the concept of Israel being a Jewish state. Meryl, – you are responding to a point I didn’t make. I didn’t say a state religion must prohibit the practice of all other religions (although that is also common.) I said it is reasonable to prohibit foreign missionaries from entering the country for the purpose of converting people away from the state’s religion.

A proper analog (using your example of England and Judaism) would be England prohibiting foreigners from entering the country if they are trying to convert the Anglican population to Judaism.

Not only do I think that would be their right, I wouldn’t even oppose the law. I consider all missionary activity to be organized harassment. It’s illegal in most places (including the US) to badger them into buying products, so why should badgering them into changing religions be any different?

Religious freedom is, by definition, incompatible with the concept of a state religion. If you support one, then you have to oppose the other. If you want to grant missionaries the right to preach anywhere and everywhere, then you must also forbid the concept of Israel being a Jewish state.

]]> By: Long_rifle http://www.yourish.com/2008/02/20/4410/comment-page-1#comment-30968 Long_rifle Thu, 21 Feb 2008 02:25:08 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2008/02/20/4410#comment-30968 You’re going down a very slippery slope there. I’m a believer in freedom of religion, myself. Including in Jordan. --- Religious freedom aside, I would expect a NATION based on the "religion of peace" would tolerate other religions a bit more... Just another example of "it's a peaceful religion, as long as you're a member of it, not a free thinking woman, and don't mind living in the past." You’re going down a very slippery slope there. I’m a believer in freedom of religion, myself. Including in Jordan.
—

Religious freedom aside, I would expect a NATION based on the “religion of peace” would tolerate other religions a bit more…

Just another example of “it’s a peaceful religion, as long as you’re a member of it, not a free thinking woman, and don’t mind living in the past.”

]]> By: Alex Bensky http://www.yourish.com/2008/02/20/4410/comment-page-1#comment-30967 Alex Bensky Thu, 21 Feb 2008 00:52:51 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2008/02/20/4410#comment-30967 Please keep your readership posted, Meryl, and link us to the cries of outrage that the Presbyterians and Episcopalians, among others, will be issuing at the attacks on their co-religionists. After all, if their feelings are so delicate about the sins of Jews, think of how they'll react when fellow Christians are imprisoned. Please keep your readership posted, Meryl, and link us to the cries of outrage that the Presbyterians and Episcopalians, among others, will be issuing at the attacks on their co-religionists. After all, if their feelings are so delicate about the sins of Jews, think of how they’ll react when fellow Christians are imprisoned.

]]> By: Meryl Yourish http://www.yourish.com/2008/02/20/4410/comment-page-1#comment-30966 Meryl Yourish Thu, 21 Feb 2008 00:04:02 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2008/02/20/4410#comment-30966 Say, David, England has a state religion. Would it be okay for them to kick out all the Jews because Jews don't adhere to the Church of England? You're going down a very slippery slope there. I'm a believer in freedom of religion, myself. Including in Jordan. Say, David, England has a state religion. Would it be okay for them to kick out all the Jews because Jews don’t adhere to the Church of England?

You’re going down a very slippery slope there. I’m a believer in freedom of religion, myself. Including in Jordan.

]]> By: David Charlap http://www.yourish.com/2008/02/20/4410/comment-page-1#comment-30964 David Charlap Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:26:58 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2008/02/20/4410#comment-30964 I think a nation with a state religion has every right to outlaw missionary activity, especially when the missionaries are foreigners. I think missionary activity against a state religion can very easily be interpreted as inciting rebellion. I can guarantee you that these missionaries knew they were violating Jordanian law when they entered the country. (And if they didn't know, the church that sent them was being incredibly irresponsible.) They decided that their holy cause was more important than local law - that's fine, but it doesn't make their actions any less illegal. I think jail sentences, however, are overly harsh. The missionaries should simply have had their visas revoked, and put on the next plane back to their home countries. Their names can be kept on file to prevent legal re-entry. I think a nation with a state religion has every right to outlaw missionary activity, especially when the missionaries are foreigners. I think missionary activity against a state religion can very easily be interpreted as inciting rebellion.

I can guarantee you that these missionaries knew they were violating Jordanian law when they entered the country. (And if they didn’t know, the church that sent them was being incredibly irresponsible.) They decided that their holy cause was more important than local law – that’s fine, but it doesn’t make their actions any less illegal.

I think jail sentences, however, are overly harsh. The missionaries should simply have had their visas revoked, and put on the next plane back to their home countries. Their names can be kept on file to prevent legal re-entry.

]]> By: Rahel http://www.yourish.com/2008/02/20/4410/comment-page-1#comment-30961 Rahel Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:53:59 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2008/02/20/4410#comment-30961 As far as I know, according to Israeli law, pure evangelizing is not illegal. What's illegal is offering someone money to change their religion. Joshik, I've been approached quite a few times by Muslims and Christians who wanted me to join their respective faiths. As far as I know, they're all still free, including the one who left an evangelical comic-strip booklet in my mailbox a few months ago. As far as I know, according to Israeli law, pure evangelizing is not illegal. What’s illegal is offering someone money to change their religion.

Joshik, I’ve been approached quite a few times by Muslims and Christians who wanted me to join their respective faiths. As far as I know, they’re all still free, including the one who left an evangelical comic-strip booklet in my mailbox a few months ago.

]]> By: Meryl Yourish http://www.yourish.com/2008/02/20/4410/comment-page-1#comment-30959 Meryl Yourish Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:50:33 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2008/02/20/4410#comment-30959 Joshik, really? Well, if there are, please show me the last occurrence of a Christian evangelical being thrown into jail in Israel. I'm especially interested to find that out, knowing that "Jews" for Jesus has a presence in Israel. Joshik, really? Well, if there are, please show me the last occurrence of a Christian evangelical being thrown into jail in Israel.

I’m especially interested to find that out, knowing that “Jews” for Jesus has a presence in Israel.

]]> By: Joshik http://www.yourish.com/2008/02/20/4410/comment-page-1#comment-30958 Joshik Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:56:18 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2008/02/20/4410#comment-30958 Well, not to play Devil's Advocate, but doesn't Israel have similar anti-evangelical laws? Well, not to play Devil’s Advocate, but doesn’t Israel have similar anti-evangelical laws?

]]> By: John M. http://www.yourish.com/2008/02/20/4410/comment-page-1#comment-30957 John M. Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:47:36 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2008/02/20/4410#comment-30957 But you see, "true" Islam is not practiced there. Even though the country is 99% Muslim, and is right next to the country with Mecca, they actually practice an intolerant derivation of Islam. "True" Islam is a religion of peace and is only practiced in a few liberal mosques in major Wetern cities with media outlets. But you see, “true” Islam is not practiced there. Even though the country is 99% Muslim, and is right next to the country with Mecca, they actually practice an intolerant derivation of Islam. “True” Islam is a religion of peace and is only practiced in a few liberal mosques in major Wetern cities with media outlets.

]]>