Comments on: The anti-checkpoint juggernaut revs up http://www.yourish.com/2007/12/14/4112 Cutting straight to the point Sun, 08 Nov 2009 09:38:58 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Ben-Yehudah http://www.yourish.com/2007/12/14/4112/comment-page-1#comment-30164 Ben-Yehudah Sun, 16 Dec 2007 23:28:56 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/12/14/4112#comment-30164 B"H I think that the issue is that of double standards and of Israel's codependence. The so-called "Road Map" says that the Arabs are supposed control terror before any final status talks are to proceed, yet a deadline has been set for final status talks in Annapolis, even though that hasn't happened. And why on earth would it ever happen? The Tanzim (Fatah's military wing) are behind many of the attacks. The PA's educational programming supporting suicide bombings and other forms of violence against Jews also does not help to quell the attacks. Lefty wants evidence that the checkpoints are effective. In a "normal" situation, I, too, would expect some kind of statistical justification. This is not a normal situation. They're not 100% effective, especially with self-hating Jews like Mahsom Watch yelling at IDF soldiers to release terorists (unbeknownst to them), and the soldiers actually listening to them, like what recently happened in Hawara (in Samaria, east of Shchem). Even if one Israeli life is saved at the inconvenience of 1,000's of Arabs, isn't it worth it? Granted the EU and UN do not value Jewish lives as much as others, but I don't care. I'm all for finding a more efficient way to prevent terrorist attacks. Resettlement will have to be the ultimate answer,...of Arabs that is. I am against the need for checkpoints. I am also against a stupid fence running through the middle of my country. Fences do not send the message the "this is ours," they send the message that the other part on the other side of the fence, isn't. So-called Palestinians already have a country. They actually came from three: Jordan, Syria, and Egypt. B”H I think that the issue is that of double standards and of Israel’s codependence. The so-called “Road Map” says that the Arabs are supposed control terror before any final status talks are to proceed, yet a deadline has been set for final status talks in Annapolis, even though that hasn’t happened.

And why on earth would it ever happen? The Tanzim (Fatah’s military wing) are behind many of the attacks. The PA’s educational programming supporting suicide bombings and other forms of violence against Jews also does not help to quell the attacks.

Lefty wants evidence that the checkpoints are effective. In a “normal” situation, I, too, would expect some kind of statistical justification. This is not a normal situation.

They’re not 100% effective, especially with self-hating Jews like Mahsom Watch yelling at IDF soldiers to release terorists (unbeknownst to them), and the soldiers actually listening to them, like what recently happened in Hawara (in Samaria, east of Shchem).

Even if one Israeli life is saved at the inconvenience of 1,000’s of Arabs, isn’t it worth it? Granted the EU and UN do not value Jewish lives as much as others, but I don’t care.

I’m all for finding a more efficient way to prevent terrorist attacks. Resettlement will have to be the ultimate answer,…of Arabs that is.

I am against the need for checkpoints. I am also against a stupid fence running through the middle of my country.

Fences do not send the message the “this is ours,” they send the message that the other part on the other side of the fence, isn’t.

So-called Palestinians already have a country. They actually came from three: Jordan, Syria, and Egypt.

]]> By: Michael Lonie http://www.yourish.com/2007/12/14/4112/comment-page-1#comment-30156 Michael Lonie Sun, 16 Dec 2007 03:56:58 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/12/14/4112#comment-30156 "The World Bank warned that unless Israel removes some of the physical and administrative obstacles to Palestinian travel and trade, donor countries asked to pledge $5.6 billion at a conference in Paris next week may be wasting their money." They'll be wasting it anyway. The PA, and Hamas too, are sinks of corruption and waste. What isn't stolen will be channelled into supporting jihad and, therefore, attempted genocide. If the clowns in the "Internatioanl Community", especially the EU, actually wanted to end this war without a bloodbath they would cut off the Palestinian Arabs completely from all aid. Force them to work or starve and they will have to work to eat, and not have time for their activites aimed at Jewish genocide. The Muslims aim at genocide and all those complaceniks around the world shut their eyes to this fact. Because it aims at genocide, the Muslim war against Israel is itself a violation of international law (such as it is), a violation of the Genocide Convention adopted after WWII when the horror of what the Nazis had done was fresh and people still remembered what it meant. For that reason, if anybody took real international law seriously they would be Israel supporters. That the clowns who blather loudest about international law are not speaks volumes about the falsity of their advocay of such law. “The World Bank warned that unless Israel removes some of the physical and administrative obstacles to Palestinian travel and trade, donor countries asked to pledge $5.6 billion at a conference in Paris next week may be wasting their money.”

They’ll be wasting it anyway. The PA, and Hamas too, are sinks of corruption and waste. What isn’t stolen will be channelled into supporting jihad and, therefore, attempted genocide. If the clowns in the “Internatioanl Community”, especially the EU, actually wanted to end this war without a bloodbath they would cut off the Palestinian Arabs completely from all aid. Force them to work or starve and they will have to work to eat, and not have time for their activites aimed at Jewish genocide.

The Muslims aim at genocide and all those complaceniks around the world shut their eyes to this fact. Because it aims at genocide, the Muslim war against Israel is itself a violation of international law (such as it is), a violation of the Genocide Convention adopted after WWII when the horror of what the Nazis had done was fresh and people still remembered what it meant.

For that reason, if anybody took real international law seriously they would be Israel supporters. That the clowns who blather loudest about international law are not speaks volumes about the falsity of their advocay of such law.

]]> By: LynnB http://www.yourish.com/2007/12/14/4112/comment-page-1#comment-30140 LynnB Sat, 15 Dec 2007 17:15:03 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/12/14/4112#comment-30140 Lefty, a number of the checkpoints are at the fence itself, including those parts of it designed to protect Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria. Still others are designed to prevent the transport of explosives, bomb parts and other weapons (as well as would-be "martyrs") from one part of the "West Bank" to another so that production and distribution are made more difficult. So, yes, the checkpoints unfortunately do add a significant necessary benefit on top of the fence. Lefty, a number of the checkpoints are at the fence itself, including those parts of it designed to protect Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria. Still others are designed to prevent the transport of explosives, bomb parts and other weapons (as well as would-be “martyrs”) from one part of the “West Bank” to another so that production and distribution are made more difficult. So, yes, the checkpoints unfortunately do add a significant necessary benefit on top of the fence.

]]> By: Herschel http://www.yourish.com/2007/12/14/4112/comment-page-1#comment-30139 Herschel Sat, 15 Dec 2007 14:56:10 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/12/14/4112#comment-30139 The problem with Lefty and the left wing in general is that they really believe that you can negotiate with the psychotic radical Moslems. It is naive as hell to believe that these killers will in the long term do anything different then the Hamas charter tells them what to do, and that strict rule is "all Jews out of the middle east or living as second class citizens under Moslem rule." The problem with Lefty and the left wing in general is that they really believe that you can negotiate with the psychotic radical Moslems.
It is naive as hell to believe that these killers will in the long term do anything different then the Hamas charter tells them what to do, and that strict rule is “all Jews out of the middle east or living as second class citizens under Moslem rule.”

]]> By: Lefty http://www.yourish.com/2007/12/14/4112/comment-page-1#comment-30138 Lefty Sat, 15 Dec 2007 14:49:43 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/12/14/4112#comment-30138 But Tatterdemalian, 2003 is also the year Israel started building the security barrier. I'm trying to ascertain whether the checkpoints add a lot of beneifit on top of the barrier. I tend to think that building an impressive barrier -- landmines galore! -- would protect Israel from infiltration just as well as the checkpoints. (By the way, do you have a link for the statistics? Thanks.) But Tatterdemalian, 2003 is also the year Israel started building the security barrier. I’m trying to ascertain whether the checkpoints add a lot of beneifit on top of the barrier. I tend to think that building an impressive barrier — landmines galore! — would protect Israel from infiltration just as well as the checkpoints.

(By the way, do you have a link for the statistics? Thanks.)

]]> By: Tatterdemalian http://www.yourish.com/2007/12/14/4112/comment-page-1#comment-30136 Tatterdemalian Sat, 15 Dec 2007 04:20:19 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/12/14/4112#comment-30136 Let's see... 2001: 204 Israelis killed, 1572 wounded 25 checkpoints in the West Bank 2002: 451 Israelis killed, 2307 wounded 23 checkpoints in the West Bank (two destroyed by bombs) 2003: 210 Israelis killed, 994 wounded 147 checkpoints in the West Bank 2004: 117 Israelis killed, 595 wounded 205 checkpoints in the West Bank 2005: 55 Israelis killed, 483 wounded 376 checkpoints in the West Bank 2006: 30 Israelis killed, 302 wounded 528 checkpoints in the West Bank Seems to be a bit of a correlation there. I'm sure it's totally meaningless. Let’s see…

2001:
204 Israelis killed, 1572 wounded
25 checkpoints in the West Bank

2002:
451 Israelis killed, 2307 wounded
23 checkpoints in the West Bank (two destroyed by bombs)

2003:
210 Israelis killed, 994 wounded
147 checkpoints in the West Bank

2004:
117 Israelis killed, 595 wounded
205 checkpoints in the West Bank

2005:
55 Israelis killed, 483 wounded
376 checkpoints in the West Bank

2006:
30 Israelis killed, 302 wounded
528 checkpoints in the West Bank

Seems to be a bit of a correlation there. I’m sure it’s totally meaningless.

]]> By: LynnB http://www.yourish.com/2007/12/14/4112/comment-page-1#comment-30134 LynnB Sat, 15 Dec 2007 00:16:14 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/12/14/4112#comment-30134 If the media told the truth... Let me fix that first paragraph: <blockquote>The Palestinian prime minister said he failed to win assurances from Israel’s defense minister Thursday that he’ll ease stifling restrictions on Palestinian movement — a measure seen as key to the success of an ambitious terrorist effort to revive the daily infiltration into Israel by suicide bombers and other armed murderers.</blockquote> If the media told the truth…

Let me fix that first paragraph:

The Palestinian prime minister said he failed to win assurances from Israel’s defense minister Thursday that he’ll ease stifling restrictions on Palestinian movement — a measure seen as key to the success of an ambitious terrorist effort to revive the daily infiltration into Israel by suicide bombers and other armed murderers.

]]> By: Lefty http://www.yourish.com/2007/12/14/4112/comment-page-1#comment-30133 Lefty Sat, 15 Dec 2007 00:02:17 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/12/14/4112#comment-30133 "Will all this pressure cause Israel to make eliminate checkpoints? And how soon afterward will the first suicide bomber hit Tel Aviv?" Aye, there's the rub. How effective, really, are the checkpoints in preventing suicide attacks in Israel proper? Do they really add a whole lot of value to the security barrier? I'm willing to believe that the checkpoints are a vital security necessity but I just haven't heard a convincing argument for them yet. “Will all this pressure cause Israel to make eliminate checkpoints? And how soon afterward will the first suicide bomber hit Tel Aviv?”

Aye, there’s the rub. How effective, really, are the checkpoints in preventing suicide attacks in Israel proper? Do they really add a whole lot of value to the security barrier? I’m willing to believe that the checkpoints are a vital security necessity but I just haven’t heard a convincing argument for them yet.

]]>