Comments on: Creative … or delusional? http://www.yourish.com/2007/10/12/3821 Cutting straight to the point Sun, 08 Nov 2009 02:03:40 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Michael Lonie http://www.yourish.com/2007/10/12/3821/comment-page-1#comment-29075 Michael Lonie Sun, 14 Oct 2007 00:33:18 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/10/12/3821#comment-29075 The people who favor "engagement" or appeasement of Hamas, Syria, etc. do not seem to attend to what those actors actually say or do, but project onto them their own ideas. Thus many people are convinced that Syria is willing to make peace with Israel despite decades of refusal by Syria's thuggish rulers to do that. Similarly with the various Palestinian Arab groups. Hardly anybody pays any attention to what Hamas' leaders actually say, they just assume that Hamas' leaders agree with them. As for the ordinary Arabs they have been pickled in demagoguery and taught hatred for decades. They will demand genocide, which is exactly what their rulers want them to say, for it accords with their own preferences. "See, we can't make peace," the rulers will tell us, "the masses won't let us." Those rulers have made quite sure that such demands are what the masses will make. There is no progress to be made right now towards peace. Let the Arabs fester in their fever for a while longer. Let us see if halfway decent consensual government can take hold in Iraq and, if we can find the stones to force it, in a Lebanon that has been freed of Syrian fascist domination. If so progress can probably be made in the future, when Arabs have come to realize that if they leave Israel alone then Israel will be no danger or threat to them. When the Paletinian Arabs have been chastened by a cut off of money from outside, forcing them to work for a living rather than live as parasites on the ourside world, then thay may be willing to make peace. Right now they are preparing for war, as are Iran (and its puppets) and Syria. There is no peace in the offing, no matter how attractive the delusions of American diplomats and Israeli politicians may be. The people who favor “engagement” or appeasement of Hamas, Syria, etc. do not seem to attend to what those actors actually say or do, but project onto them their own ideas. Thus many people are convinced that Syria is willing to make peace with Israel despite decades of refusal by Syria’s thuggish rulers to do that. Similarly with the various Palestinian Arab groups. Hardly anybody pays any attention to what Hamas’ leaders actually say, they just assume that Hamas’ leaders agree with them.

As for the ordinary Arabs they have been pickled in demagoguery and taught hatred for decades. They will demand genocide, which is exactly what their rulers want them to say, for it accords with their own preferences. “See, we can’t make peace,” the rulers will tell us, “the masses won’t let us.” Those rulers have made quite sure that such demands are what the masses will make.

There is no progress to be made right now towards peace. Let the Arabs fester in their fever for a while longer. Let us see if halfway decent consensual government can take hold in Iraq and, if we can find the stones to force it, in a Lebanon that has been freed of Syrian fascist domination. If so progress can probably be made in the future, when Arabs have come to realize that if they leave Israel alone then Israel will be no danger or threat to them.

When the Paletinian Arabs have been chastened by a cut off of money from outside, forcing them to work for a living rather than live as parasites on the ourside world, then thay may be willing to make peace. Right now they are preparing for war, as are Iran (and its puppets) and Syria. There is no peace in the offing, no matter how attractive the delusions of American diplomats and Israeli politicians may be.

]]> By: Lil Mamzer http://www.yourish.com/2007/10/12/3821/comment-page-1#comment-29073 Lil Mamzer Sat, 13 Oct 2007 19:40:24 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/10/12/3821#comment-29073 Steve Clemons writes: <i>"Interesting post — those who don’t want engagement will eventually be compelled by the majorities in most of these places that do."</i> What does that mean? The majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas. What kind of "engagement" do you think they want with Israel? Do you really believe there is a majority of Syrians who want to live in peace with Israel? And even if there were, how does engaging (read: appeasing) Assad bring a real peace any closer? I have been following your writing for a while, Mr. Clemons, and you are no friend of Israel, in my opinion. Your pieces always make Israel the bad actor in the her struggle with totalitarian, Islamist, and terrorist regimes. Why is that? Steve Clemons writes:

“Interesting post — those who don’t want engagement will eventually be compelled by the majorities in most of these places that do.”

What does that mean?

The majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas. What kind of “engagement” do you think they want with Israel?

Do you really believe there is a majority of Syrians who want to live in peace with Israel? And even if there were, how does engaging (read: appeasing) Assad bring a real peace any closer?

I have been following your writing for a while, Mr. Clemons, and you are no friend of Israel, in my opinion. Your pieces always make Israel the bad actor in the her struggle with totalitarian, Islamist, and terrorist regimes. Why is that?

]]> By: Cynic http://www.yourish.com/2007/10/12/3821/comment-page-1#comment-29072 Cynic Sat, 13 Oct 2007 18:46:54 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/10/12/3821#comment-29072 "Given this incontrovertible fact, there are three explanations for the behavior of this group of “former government officials”:" They are being paid by the Saudis to try and get the ball into the other court. “Given this incontrovertible fact, there are three explanations for the behavior of this group of “former government officials”:”

They are being paid by the Saudis to try and get the ball into the other court.

]]> By: Gary Rosen http://www.yourish.com/2007/10/12/3821/comment-page-1#comment-29070 Gary Rosen Sat, 13 Oct 2007 16:07:22 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/10/12/3821#comment-29070 Hamas repeatedly has made it clear, every single chance it gets, that it has absolutely no intention whatsoever of deviatiing from the goal stated explicitly in its charter of annihilating Jews and Israel. Given this incontrovertible fact, there are three explanations for the behavior of this group of "former government officials": 1) They are drooling, self-deluded morons. 2) They share Hamas' goal. 3) Both 1) and 2). With the membership of Scowcroft and Brzezinski in this group, I vote for 3). Hamas repeatedly has made it clear, every single chance it gets, that it has absolutely no intention whatsoever of deviatiing from the goal stated explicitly in its charter of annihilating Jews and Israel. Given this incontrovertible fact, there are three explanations for the behavior of this group of “former government officials”:

1) They are drooling, self-deluded morons.

2) They share Hamas’ goal.

3) Both 1) and 2).

With the membership of Scowcroft and Brzezinski in this group, I vote for 3).

]]> By: Steve Clemons http://www.yourish.com/2007/10/12/3821/comment-page-1#comment-29068 Steve Clemons Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:26:31 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/10/12/3821#comment-29068 Interesting post -- those who don't want engagement will eventually be compelled by the majorities in most of these places that do. But you're right that it's a messy situation. I vote for "creative" but then again, I'm helping along with others to push the idea. Congrats on your blog which I like a lot from a quick read. All the best, Steve Clemons The Washington Note Interesting post — those who don’t want engagement will eventually be compelled by the majorities in most of these places that do. But you’re right that it’s a messy situation.

I vote for “creative” but then again, I’m helping along with others to push the idea.

Congrats on your blog which I like a lot from a quick read.

All the best,

Steve Clemons
The Washington Note

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