Something about the beautiful summer weather brings out the crazies and the idiots. Of couse, I think the “Jews” for Jesus people are both, but I’m glad I don’t work in metro DC and have to put up with this crap:
A two-week evangelical campaign designed to bring Jews to Jesus is underway in Washington, taking this question to Metro stations, Nationals games and popular spots like U Street: Is Jesus the Jewish messiah?
Well, no, he wasn’t, but don’t let that get in the way of your ability to annoy.
That is the core belief of the international missionary organization Jews for Jesus, the best known of dozens of messianic Jewish groups that have sprung up in recent decades. Followers believe that Jesus was the messiah mentioned in Jewish scripture. The group, which has a $17 million annual budget, defines its mission as “making the messiahship of Jesus an unavoidable issue to Jewish people worldwide.”
And here we must point out that the budget is almost wholly devoted to converting Jews, and yet, the Jews, they do not convert in droves. Go figure.
The group is loathed by many mainstream Jews.
You got that right, sister.
Washington area Jewish organizations and the InterFaith Conference of Metropolitan Washington have condemned the campaign, saying Jews for Jesus proselytizes too aggressively and misleads potential followers by using Jewish symbols, portraying their places of worship as synagogues and referring to Jesus by Hebrew names.
This is what’s known as the tactic of “lying.” It’s used when you have no other way to get your point across. One of the other ways that J4Js lie is when they pretend their congregations are Jewish, when in reality, just about every J4J congregation fills its seats with Christians, many of whom have no idea that the “Jews” in their church aren’t really Jewish. Because the other thing that J4Js do is call everyone who has a drop of Jewish blood in them Jewish. You grandfather was Jewish? Cool! We have another Jew in our J4J congregation. Halachic law? What’s that? The stuff that was superceded by Jesus? Whoops, wait, I didn’t mean to say that….
“You don’t dress up fundamentalist, evangelical Christian missionaries in Jewish clothing and call it Judaism,” said Scott Hillman, director of the regional office of Jews for Judaism, which works against groups trying to convert Jews to Christianity.
Amen, brother!
Oops. I got so caught up in the Christian evangelical part of the J4Js, that I forgot where I was.
More than 30 Jews and Christians from Washington and across the country are participating, a far smaller number than in 2004, when 600 volunteers were trained to hand out leaflets.
Aw. Gee. They’re losing ground. Could it be that those wily Jews have caught on to these bogus Jews? Ya think?
Organizers say that is because 2004 was part of an unprecedented five-year, 38-city, global Jews for Jesus campaign that cost millions. The D.C. area push that year, which cost about $200,000, was also promoted heavily by the Rev. Lon Solomon, senior pastor of the McLean Bible megachurch in McLean and a member of the Jews for Jesus board of directors. This year, McLean contributed a small number of volunteers and the campaign has no advertising, as there was in 2004.
Once again, I have to say that when you lower your budget, your employees, and your expectations, it shows that you are—say it with me, folks—losing. And losing makes you—once again, people: Losers.
But it comes at a time when congregations of messianic Jews are growing, albeit slowly. There are about 300 such congregations in the United States, up from none around 1970, according to the Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations. Jewish groups that work to oppose conversion efforts estimate that 200,000 American Jews have become believers in Christ in the past three decades.
What else has grown since 1970: People who have home computers, VCRs, SUVs, PDAs, stock portfolios—I mean, really. If you have to reach back to the organization’s beginnings to prove that it has grown, you are reaching, indeed. However, we can take a look at one congregation of Faux Jews in particular that I encountered some time ago. The “rabbi” of that congregation actually bragged that he had A 34% Jewish congregation. Wow. One-third of his congregation called themselves Jews, or had Jewish parents or grandparents or great-grandparents. Which means that two-thirds did not. That’s something you never hear about from these J4Js: How high a percentage of their congregations are not Jewish. And then you get the nutty stuff like this, which makes real Jews sit up and, well, laugh.
Congregation Zion’s Sake also sponsors a Messianic Davidic dance team led by Rebbitzin Barb Carlson. Many of their dances consist of the “circle dance” which represents unity. It is a traditional Judaic belief that demonic forces cannot penetrate a circle. They dance before the Lord, sowing praise and worship unto the God of Israel! The Zion’s Sake Dancers have ministered locally and globally, having been called to worship and share Yeshua in our local prisons and jails, numerous churches, city festivals, and to the nations having ministered in St. Petersburg and Omsk, Siberia-Russia.
I’ve never quite heard the Hora described in such a manner. Next time I dance it at a bar or bat mitzvah, I will remember that I’m also guarding against demons. By dancing “Davidically.”
And just in case you think that this is an oddity, read on:
“How can you say you love Jews if you withhold the messiah from them?” asked Stephen Katz, director of the local Jews for Jesus office, who handed out brochures to commuters at the Foggy Bottom Metro during Tuesday’s morning rush hour.
Working with him was Adam Myers, 21, a junior at Liberty University, who said it bothers him that so many people at his church believe that proselytizing to Jews is unnecessary.
“It’s just not politically correct to tell people that if you want to go to heaven, you have to accept Jesus. What we’re saying is intolerant, just like if a doctor said you need to take this medicine, that is intolerant,” he said.
If anyone can please interpret what Adam Myers means about doctors and tolerance, I’d appreciate it. Because it makes absolutely no sense to me. Or to another college student, who happens to be Jewish:
While passing out brochures, Katz got the e-mail address of Michaela Curtis, a 21-year-old intern from North Carolina who grew up in a Christian household where interest in Judaism was high.
“Jews for Jesus is true Judaism, because Jesus was the king of the Jews,” she said. “It makes perfect sense to me.”
But nearby was Bess Lender, a Jewish George Washington University senior, who disagreed.
“They’ll promote themselves as Jewish,” Lender said, “but it’s just silly to me to think you can be Jewish and believe in Christ as the messiah.”
Attagirl. Show ’em why the J4Js are doing such a crappy job. Because their mission is stupid to begin with.
Jewish. Christian. Pick one, and only one. Stop trying to pretend you can be both.
Eric, see Saba Hillel’s explanation of shutfus. If the belief in Trinity is shutfus, then it would be permitted to gentiles under Noahide law, but still forbidden to Jews. If it is not shutfus, it would be prohbited to everyone.
Atlantic, Meryl is very good at speaking for herself, but it seems to me that there are several distinctions between discussing whether J4J have stepped outside Judaism (which is indisputable except to those who know nothing of Judaism) and whether a given individual on this site has stepped outside of Christianity.
First and most important, this is a Jewish site to discuss Jewish topics. No one comes to this site to read or debate what is Christian belief. Some of us may be curious about those beliefs, and some may not. But unlike Christians, who claim that their religion is based on our beliefs, we do not consider our religion based on yours. So Christian beliefs are more or less irrelevant to us, except to the extent they lead to the death or persecution of our people; e.g. active incitement to murder by the RC Church in the past (and in parts of Poland, as recent as the 1990s or later) or the Orthodox Church, or the Presbyterians and UCC willingness to believe the worst of the Jewish state and discount threats to its survival, conditioned as those churches are by centuries of teachings about those evil Jews.
The second reason is the specific vs. the general. We are not discussing any given J4J by name, but the disgusting J4J movement and deceptive evangelism as a whole. That is different in kind as well as degree from discussing whether the beliefs of a particular person posting here are or are not heterodox.
Don,
“Matthew 5:17 said Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”
My point exactly. He told people to ignore laws of Shabbos, laws of what food is or is not permitted, and to neglect the commandment of burying the dead — a commandment so important that it supersedes the High Priest carrying out the Yom Kippur service. (I realize that’s meaningless to you, but to a Jew with any knowledge at all, it’s huge — espec. since it renders the Kohen Gadol tamei and therefore unable to serve in the Temple or partake of offerings for at least a week, and overrides both the commandment that he personally perform the service, and the commandment that he not become tamei).
Your so-called messiah also claimed that no one could come to G-d except thru him — flatly contradicting the command that Jews pray to G-d directly and not thru any intermediary.
In other words, either that certain man you describe as the son of G-d was ignorant of the commandments, or he was lying about his intent. Either way, it hardly bolsters your claim that this bum was the messiah.
There are several reasons, but the main one is that my commenting rules require civility. I think telling Don he’s not a Christian falls afoul of that rule.
Also, you are comparing apples with shoes. Christians who call themselves Jewish are the ones who make up the majority of J4Js. That is my main argument. It’s not about Jews who call themselves Jewish. You will never find firm numbers of Jews-to-Christian ratio on the J4J website, because that figure alone would tell you how fake is the organization.
You can no longer find the news release from “rabbi” Eric Carlson (who was ordained by an Evangelical Christian church, not a rabbinical college) bragging about how his congregation is “34% Jewish,” probably because I found it, quoted it, and used it to show that a Christian organization is pretending to be Jewish in order to convert real Jews. This is absolutely not the same thing as your arguing among various Christian sects which of you is really Christian or not. It would be, rather, like Orthodox Jews telling Reform Jews that they’re not really Jewish. And while there are many Jews who have enthusiastically partaken in that exact discussion, I have shut it down each and every time rears its ugly head on my comments.
Which is why I am shutting down your discussion. If you and Don want to take it to email, that’s your business.
Meryl, I want you to know that I was not offended at the statement that I am not a Christian. I feel certain that on Judgment Day Jesus will say He knows me.
I have enjoyed this exchange, and have learned a lot about Judaism. I certainly would never have said any of your other readers were not Jews, for two reasons. The obvious one is that it is not my place to judge, but also I don’t know enough about Judaism to evaluate. I will say this, I believe John 14:6 refers to Judgement day, not prayer, and so if it is right, and “No one comes to the Father except through me”, all you will have to do is say “I am here under a compact with your father” and you will be passed on. I expect to see each of you in Heaven.
But in respect for your policies, Meryl, I will drop further responses in this thread.
It has come to my attention that my earlier comment may have been unclear. To clarify, if the man that Christians call the messiah said “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them”, and did and taught the things that the Gospel records as having done and taught, then the man whom the Christians think is the messiah was either ignorant of that Law or was a liar.
If I was misunderstood as having accused anyone who posts here as having lied, then I regret the misunderstanding.
I do NOT regret having called the guy whom the Christians call messiah a liar.
He was. If he starts posint here, I suppose I’ll apologize then, but not before.