Comments on: Churchill and anti-Semitism http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846 Cutting straight to the point Mon, 13 Feb 2012 02:14:35 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.1 By: Michael Lonie http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846/comment-page-1#comment-25125 Michael Lonie Tue, 13 Mar 2007 02:55:26 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846#comment-25125 And I think that if you consult Gilbert's work on Churchill you will find that he was not a manic depressive alcoholic. He could be depressed, what he called "the black dog", but it was hardly clinical depression let alone bipolar disorder. He could hold his liquor too. Plenty of his bon mots come from times when he was drunk. There was much opposition to bombing concentration camps among airmen for the simple reason that it was not a productive use of the air forces. Flying to Poland from Britain was a very long flight, far beyond the range of fighters. Thus the bombers could not be escorted and would be vulnerable to enemy fighters and have to carry minimal bomb loads. At night the bombers could not hit small targets like camps, by day they would be cut to ribbons by German fighters. Any damage they could do such as bombing rail lines would be repaired quickly by the Germans. There was no point in getting many men killed to do insignificant damage in this case. And I think that if you consult Gilbert’s work on Churchill you will find that he was not a manic depressive alcoholic. He could be depressed, what he called “the black dog”, but it was hardly clinical depression let alone bipolar disorder. He could hold his liquor too. Plenty of his bon mots come from times when he was drunk.

There was much opposition to bombing concentration camps among airmen for the simple reason that it was not a productive use of the air forces. Flying to Poland from Britain was a very long flight, far beyond the range of fighters. Thus the bombers could not be escorted and would be vulnerable to enemy fighters and have to carry minimal bomb loads. At night the bombers could not hit small targets like camps, by day they would be cut to ribbons by German fighters. Any damage they could do such as bombing rail lines would be repaired quickly by the Germans. There was no point in getting many men killed to do insignificant damage in this case.

]]> By: Michael Lonie http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846/comment-page-1#comment-25124 Michael Lonie Tue, 13 Mar 2007 02:46:19 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846#comment-25124 The Stern Group made a comeback, "bigger and better" than ever after WWII and "helped" Israel's diplomatic position in 1948-9 by assassinating Count Folke Bernadotte. They specialized in own goals. The Stern Group made a comeback, “bigger and better” than ever after WWII and “helped” Israel’s diplomatic position in 1948-9 by assassinating Count Folke Bernadotte. They specialized in own goals.

]]> By: J. Lichty http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846/comment-page-1#comment-25116 J. Lichty Mon, 12 Mar 2007 19:21:54 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846#comment-25116 More on this over at <a href="http://powerlineblog.com/archives/017005.php" rel="nofollow">Powerline</a> More on this over at Powerline

]]> By: chsw http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846/comment-page-1#comment-25114 chsw Mon, 12 Mar 2007 17:40:52 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846#comment-25114 Lynn, I know that Churchill had Jewish personal friends, perhaps more than did Roosevelt. However, I also know that my facts about Churchill's actions are correct. chsw Lynn, I know that Churchill had Jewish personal friends, perhaps more than did Roosevelt. However, I also know that my facts about Churchill’s actions are correct.

chsw

]]> By: LynnB http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846/comment-page-1#comment-25112 LynnB Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:37:59 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846#comment-25112 If Martin Gilbert says it was a ghost writer, you can pretty much take that to the bank. There just isn't anyone on the planet who knows more about the details of Churchill's life. chsw - I don't think Sir Martin would agree with your assessment. The subtitle of his newest book, "Churchill and the Jews," is "A Lifelong Friendship." If Martin Gilbert says it was a ghost writer, you can pretty much take that to the bank. There just isn’t anyone on the planet who knows more about the details of Churchill’s life.

chsw – I don’t think Sir Martin would agree with your assessment. The subtitle of his newest book, “Churchill and the Jews,” is “A Lifelong Friendship.”

]]> By: chsw http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846/comment-page-1#comment-25110 chsw Mon, 12 Mar 2007 12:16:13 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846#comment-25110 I apologize, Rahel. You are correct. Stern was shot. Sabba Hillel is also correct. My granduncle who emigrated to Britain during the 1920's also received a German war pension until 1939. However, the British threw all German immigrants - who were primarily Jewish by 1939 - into prison camps for the first several months of WW2. The Brits tracked who received these pensions and used receipt of these pensions to justify imprisonment of "enemy aliens." chsw I apologize, Rahel. You are correct. Stern was shot.

Sabba Hillel is also correct. My granduncle who emigrated to Britain during the 1920′s also received a German war pension until 1939. However, the British threw all German immigrants – who were primarily Jewish by 1939 – into prison camps for the first several months of WW2. The Brits tracked who received these pensions and used receipt of these pensions to justify imprisonment of “enemy aliens.”

chsw

]]> By: Paul http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846/comment-page-1#comment-25109 Paul Mon, 12 Mar 2007 12:00:42 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846#comment-25109 Interesting information! Interesting information!

]]> By: Sabba Hillel http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846/comment-page-1#comment-25108 Sabba Hillel Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:39:13 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846#comment-25108 An interesting sidelight is that the Jews served in the German Army in WWI in disproportianate numbers. The German general staff did a study as a result of similar rumors but suppressed the results. The German government continued sending the pensions to Jews in the US until they declared war in WW II. Rav Breuer was one of the people receiving such a pension. Rabbi Wein points out the irony that they sent the pensions because they could not get their hands on Jews to murder them. An interesting sidelight is that the Jews served in the German Army in WWI in disproportianate numbers. The German general staff did a study as a result of similar rumors but suppressed the results.

The German government continued sending the pensions to Jews in the US until they declared war in WW II. Rav Breuer was one of the people receiving such a pension. Rabbi Wein points out the irony that they sent the pensions because they could not get their hands on Jews to murder them.

]]> By: Rahel http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846/comment-page-1#comment-25107 Rahel Mon, 12 Mar 2007 08:37:06 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846#comment-25107 Avraham Stern was shot in Tel Aviv, not hanged. Avraham Stern was shot in Tel Aviv, not hanged.

]]> By: chsw http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846/comment-page-1#comment-25106 chsw Mon, 12 Mar 2007 03:11:52 +0000 http://www.yourish.com/2007/03/11/2846#comment-25106 Churchill was never truly philosemitic or pro-Zionist except as it suited political expediency. Moreover, he was never a good national leader except during WW2. In the 1920's, as Chancellor of the Exchequer, Churchill tanked the British economy (and helped cause the Great Depression) by doubling the official exchange rates. As Home Secretary, he called out the army to attack a women's protest against high bread prices. Later, Churchill also presented the 1922 White Paper which restricted Jewish immigration into Palestine, restrictions that applied even if Jews were British citizens. During WW2, it was Roosevelt, not Churchill, that raised the subjects of accepting Jewish immigrants and of bombing concentration camps. Churchill was against these. In fact, most of the time, Churchill was pretty much a manic depressive alcoholic whose behavior worried Roosevelt, Hopkins (mutual friend and US Ambassador to GB) and Marshall. Also, Lorie, the Stern Gang was pretty much over by 1942, when Avraham Stern has hanged by the British. chsw Churchill was never truly philosemitic or pro-Zionist except as it suited political expediency. Moreover, he was never a good national leader except during WW2. In the 1920′s, as Chancellor of the Exchequer, Churchill tanked the British economy (and helped cause the Great Depression) by doubling the official exchange rates. As Home Secretary, he called out the army to attack a women’s protest against high bread prices. Later, Churchill also presented the 1922 White Paper which restricted Jewish immigration into Palestine, restrictions that applied even if Jews were British citizens. During WW2, it was Roosevelt, not Churchill, that raised the subjects of accepting Jewish immigrants and of bombing concentration camps. Churchill was against these. In fact, most of the time, Churchill was pretty much a manic depressive alcoholic whose behavior worried Roosevelt, Hopkins (mutual friend and US Ambassador to GB) and Marshall.

Also, Lorie, the Stern Gang was pretty much over by 1942, when Avraham Stern has hanged by the British.

chsw

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